Zenn gearing up for EEStor-powered car

March 31, 2008 - Exclusive
By David Ehrlich, Cleantech Group

Toronto-based electric vehicle maker Zenn Motor (TSX: ZNN) says it's moving forward with plans for a highway speed vehicle to be powered by EEStor in Cedar Park, Texas, announcing plans to roll out the new cars in the fall of 2009.

Zenn's shares were at Cdn$3.72 in afternoon trading, up 62 cents, or 20 percent, on the news.

The company currently makes low-speed electric vehicles, shipping its first production vehicles in October 2006 and selling almost 250 units last year.

"We need to move away from chemical battery technology to a whole new way of storing energy for electric vehicles, with a solid infrastructure to support global roll out," said Ian Clifford, CEO of Zenn, at the company's annual general meeting.

"Through their massive improvements on energy storage and power density, EEStor will virtually eliminate all of the shortcomings of existing and proposed chemical battery technology."

Secretive ultracapacitor firm EEStor, backed by Zenn and Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, is developing a solid-state electrical energy storage unit which it says will be longer lasting, lighter, more powerful, and environmentally friendly than current battery technologies.

"EEStor's technology is a tenth the weight and volume of lead-acid batteries, and significantly smaller than the most advanced chemical batteries today," said Clifford.

Zenn said EEStor has publicly committed to commercialization in 2008, and that EEStor's first production line would be used to supply Zenn.

Zenn holds 3.8 percent of EEStor after investing $2.5 million in the ultracapacitor company in April. Kleiner Perkins invested a reported $3 million in EEStor in 2005.

EEStor granted worldwide exclusive licenses for its storage units to Zenn for use in car conversions as well as for new small and medium-sized low speed and highway capable vehicles, but EEStor has already made at least one deal for other uses of its technology.

In January, Bethesda, Md.-based Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) announced that it signed a deal with EEStor to use the company's ultracapacitors for military and homeland security applications (see Lockheed Martin to use EEStor's ultracapacitors).

Lockheed Martin, the world's No. 1 defense contractor, did not disclose financial terms for the exclusive international rights agreement.

Zenn's Clifford, who said he's asked daily about the current status of EEStor, said his company is in regular contact with the energy storage developer and makes frequent visits down to EEStor's production facility in Cedar Park, an Austin suburb.

"To be very clear, this is not a lab that they are building. It is a full, state of the art production facility that is nearing completion, and we remain very pleased with their progress."

Zenn's own manufacturing plant is in St. Jerome, Quebec, and it's currently the only company building electric cars in Canada.

But Zenn sells most of its vehicles in the U.S., having only received regulatory approval for the sale of its low speed vehicles in Canada late last year (see Zenn electric cars cleared for Canada).

The highway speed vehicle, to be called the cityZenn, will have a top speed of 80 miles per hour and a range of 250 miles, according to Zenn. The company said the EEStor powered car will be rechargeable in less than 5 minutes.

Zenn did not disclose a price for the new car, but Clifford said it would be cost-competitive with combustion engine vehicles.

As for manufacturing the cityZenn, Brian Cott, Zenn's COO, said, "We are working to secure an established host platform from a shortlist of major OEMs."

The company currently uses a prefabricated host vehicle from France's Microcar for its low-speed vehicles.

Cott said the company's marketing team is looking at "key global markets" for the release of the highway speed car.

Zenn, which is making some big moves for a small company, could also be making some changes to how it's publicly traded.

Richard McGraw, Zenn's chairman, said the company plans to move to the main board of the Toronto Stock Exchange from the TSX's venture exchange in the "very near future."

The company could also show up on a listing further south.

"We have discussed a U.S. listing, and, under the right circumstances, we will pursue that," said McGraw.


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Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on March 31, 2008 - 11:13am.

I'll believe it when I see it, they were "supposed" to be ready for production back in 2006. I wish them the best but I stopped holding my breath months ago...

Submitted by Irishman54 (not verified) on May 6, 2008 - 8:44am.

We must protect this technology at all cost! ... The special interest groups and perhaps the Government will want to distroy or silence it. It would keep the government and large money Dilberts from keeping us under their control. We must break free and keep that freedom not for us but for our future generations!

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on May 15, 2008 - 6:41am.

As soon as the inflated price of oil goes down as fast as it went up these EV companies will be out of business!!

Submitted by Some name (not verified) on May 22, 2008 - 12:34pm.

The price of oil is never going down ever again. I think you're delusional. Ever hear of peak oil?

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on June 12, 2008 - 10:55am.

When most Americans scoot around in EVs it is possible for the price of oil to come down. reduce demand the price drops. More likely the oil will just be sold to China.
Americans will never go back to gas.

Gas vehicles will be like mullets.

Submitted by hypotheek informatie (not verified) on June 17, 2008 - 6:08am.

When nuclear fusion is completed, all oil prices will fall! It only will be in like 10 years or later :)

hypotheek

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on June 7, 2008 - 7:40am.

More like gas prices going down "Never going to Happen"
Nice wishful thinking on gas prices though, I would put my hopes in ANYTHING rather than gas prices going down. The odds of this technology coming through as oppose to gas prices falling is far greater.

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on March 31, 2008 - 12:50pm.

It's obvious at this point that the EEStor device works, and apparently works as described. Cost of the devices said to be 12 to 25% that of li ion batteries. THIS, Gentleman, would be the end of a whole lot of technologies, including hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and the enhancement and greater efficiency of the utility grid and a thousand and one other technologies. IF this works as described,oil is dead and so is the influence of those countries producing large amounts of it.

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on April 1, 2008 - 4:30am.

The dreamliner and the electric car are the most exciting projects taking place at the moment. In the UK petrol is now $10 a gallon and diesel even dearer plus we have a government that robs the motorist in any way it can think of. To be able to get out the clutches of greedy oil producing countries, oilcompanies and even more greedier governments is something I look forward to eagerly. When a reasonably priced reliable electric car comes on the market my lovely old Nissan Micra will be consigned to the museum. I don,t see any postings about the UK market which I am sure will snap up the city Zenn if it is as good as described and I will be in that queue. Come on Zenn take an interest in the UK we are still struggling to perfect the bicycle wheel so you haven,t got a lot of competition.

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on April 27, 2008 - 6:32am.

the implications are beyond prediction. Publicity will
most certainly draw predators. Past inventors lives have
been threatened and died accidently with their inventions ruined by powers that be who did not want their tech available on the market.

No wonder they shun publicity until this cake is actually baked and out there in believable quantities for all the world to see. At that time, no covert annihilation of this tech will be possible.

Submitted by JR (not verified) on May 20, 2008 - 7:39am.

All of your statements are true with the exception of the first one. If you check the Zenn site you will discover that Zenn owns exclusive marketing rights to virtually all cars that are likely to be produced using EEStor technology. Is it likely that for a minimal investment of $2.5 million dollars, a company would sell a revolutionary technology to a bit player producing 250 modified golf carts/year?

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on May 21, 2008 - 3:41am.

How is it "obvious" that the EEStor device works? They have not made the first dielectric yet, they have yet to measure the permittivity of a sample! The last we heard "officially" they had succeeded in making Barium Titanate, which is a long ways from a dielectric, and a dielectric is a long way from a capacitor!

It has taken two years for them to get to the BT, something that normally takes less than a couple weeks.

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on June 3, 2008 - 8:49am.

I think I am actually going to start including EESTOR in my prayers. This technology would change our way of life. If photovoltaic technology can make some significant gains in efficiency, ultracapacitors would provide the storage and the sun would provide the power. These things will be everywhere from your cell phones to your homes. If it works.

Submitted by Brett Conrad (not verified) on March 31, 2008 - 4:51pm.

If this battery is done by the end of 2008, it will need some bake-in time and real use testing before it is ready for prime time. So, a good way to start to test these is with the Zenn NEVs. Major car manufacturers will need at least one to two years of real use data before they will design this battery into their platforms. Plug-in hybrids will still be 95% of the car sales over the next 5-10 years until there is an amazing speed-charging infrastructure in place so people feel confident coming off the gas pump entirely.

The Zenn/EEstor battery will not ever displace every battery type out there, but may be a significant contributor to our future energy grid.

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on March 31, 2008 - 5:56pm.

Re: EEStor powered CityZENN targeted for fall 2009
by mrjerry on Mon 31 Mar 2008 09:18 PM EDT | Profile | Permanent Link
Just thinking....
If eestor ultracapacitor (UC) out last our car, will you remove your ultracapacitor and put it in your next car? or your next 2/3/4th cars? is eestor charging to little for a lifetime product?
If you not using your eestor UC and it fully charge from last night and you are home, do we sell it back to the grid during peak hours, or will we charge up a home unit when the grid says we can and use it for our use?
Will we create a smart grid that thinks how to use energy all this stored energy?
Will we need coal to power our energy needs or can we use solar/wind/water?
Will we create and send ships out to sea, with huge wind turbine and eestor UC to capture our energy?
Will you buy your first eestor zenn for the car or the eestor UC?
Will you just simply sell your zenn 3 times what you paid?
How much will insurance cost, or should I say theft premium?
Will we sell the UC on ebay and have the car included?
Will people throw the car away and sell the eestor UC?
Will we go to war for eestor materials, what about the price of nickle will it be the next gold, would you invest in that?
Will lockheed martin use the eestor to create weapons to kill our enemy, if we don't need oil, will we need to create these weapons?
Will foreign country be allowed to purchase eestor inc., or will it be stop because of national security?
Will AL Gore be part of the official announcement of eestor product and how it will change the world?
Will Al Gore take credit for eestor UC or will he be better known for creating the internet?
Will Richard Weir get the Nobel Peace Price, not once but for each patent?
If we had a choice between the internet or eestor UC, will eestor be the easy winner?

Ok, now it's your turn..

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on March 31, 2008 - 9:43pm.

I'd also like to believe it's plausible.

The ZENN dealer in my area (Fairfax, VA) claimed this past fall that the car would be ready in January 2008. The salesman even asked if I'd like to place an order. I declined and judging by the company's latest delay, glad I did.

What holds back my optimism in addition to the above actiona is 's stubborn secrecy despite already having a patent: why continue to be tight lipped about the production capability? About demonstrating the battery before the public eye? The only thing that does make sense is the risk-free promises being made boost share prices.

Time will tell. And there are other promising technologies with greater transparency, e.g. MIT's work.

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on April 1, 2008 - 1:07am.

5 mins recharging for a device that holds enough energy to travel 250 miles. That would certainly be one high powered battery charger. I don't think there'd be many homes with the current carrying capacity required to throw that much charge back in so short time.

Submitted by Eco (not verified) on April 1, 2008 - 9:18am.

I want to believe, but I have serious doubts.

If it's true, it would be the biggest energy-related discovery since the atomic weapon. And it will have the same geo-political impact as well.

Submitted by Andrew (not verified) on April 1, 2008 - 9:23am.

I have been following this story for quite some time now and I hope like the previous commentor that this is the real deal. If I could invest in EEstor right now I would. Now we just need to make some super efficient low-cost solar panels and the world will be a better place. I hope Tesla Motors jumps on the EEstor bandwagon and starts making cars for the average person as well as an updated super-car.

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on April 1, 2008 - 9:43am.

Does anyone know if EEStor has ever provided Zenn with a working prototype of the storage unit? If so, why wouldn't Zenn provide a demonstration to the public? My guess is they were sold a bunch of hype and are now in a corner. My hope is that this is for real.

Submitted by Brendo (not verified) on April 7, 2008 - 5:34am.

The EESTOR charger pack will come with the car,
using off peak power to charge overnight and being capable the next day or so (keeping in mind 250kms is allot of distance), to charge your car in several minutes as quoted.

Not sure how long it would take to slow charge that much power but at the same time, do you really think that thing needs charging every day based on the company's claims?

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on April 14, 2008 - 10:57am.

I'm a Mech. engineer by training, but what I know about capacitors is that they are an electrical component that has been around and well-understood for a long time. They initially appear to be a point of zero resistance (like a short circuit) in an electrical circuit, then build up resistance as their charge builds up to oppose the applied voltage. When the applied voltage is removed, the capacitor (at full voltage) then pushes electricity back, similar to what a battery does.

Historically, capacitors are built with alternating layers of conducting and insulating material. When they are charged up, it is simply due to a static charge on each layer of the conducting material. Unlike a battery, there is no transfer of charged ions in a conducting medium (like nickel-cadmium (NiCad), nickel-metal-hydride (NiMH) or lithium-hydride (Li-ion) batteries).

So from what I gather, these new "ultra-capacitors" are greatly increasing the area of conducting and insulating materials to store a static charge, and like any capacitor, they will recharge is just a few minutes.

My 2-cents.

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on June 8, 2008 - 8:22pm.

All true, but capacitors usually discharge 100% of their charge in one blast, or at least a big jolt until the rest of the circuit is charged up to the voltage remaining in the capacitors. Like a high-pressure gas tank (oxygen for diver, acetylene for welding, etc, a regulator valve, an electric gate of some kind, will be needed before the ultra is useful. Perhaps it could be used to dump big jolts into next-generation batteries (thin lead on a nanotube structure), to serve as a sort of step-regulator. I doubt the whole package-- storage and regulation-- can be worked out by late 2009. If it's operational by '11 or '12 I'd say "well done, guys".

Submitted by JonK (not verified) on June 11, 2008 - 6:02am.

Not true. (I am a ME student and of course have taken EE courses) A capacitor will discharge energy just like a battery will. It just depends on the potential difference (voltage) and resistance of the circuit. Capacitors do not just release electricity in a short blast. This misconception probably comes from the fact that typically capacitors can only store a very small amount of charge, so any appreciable current will deplete the charge quickly. An ultra-capacitor can be used the same way a battery can. No special ultra high tech "electric gate" is needed.

Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on June 29, 2008 - 11:49pm.

You made a good point. The capacitors that you have seen do discharge most of their charge in one zap. There are 2 but's.
I'm going to make a little simple,
But, this is an ultra-capacitor layered with dielectric that you have not even heard of before.
But, what if they can discharge all their electrons in one zap. What a boom that would be. Maybe why LMT is interested.

Also remember that 2.5 mil only buys 3.5% of EEStor Co. Maybe another energy revolution is close.

Submitted by Scott44 (not verified) on April 7, 2008 - 7:57am.

The work that EEStor is doing with ultracapacitors is the kind of work we should be supporting if we hope to solve our future energy problems. Clean, renewable, and sustainable should be the criteria we use to judge whether an energy source is viable. We need new ideas and the more the better. If EEStor delivers a product that has 50% of what they're claiming right now, it'll still have a viable product that could be used.

Submitted by Biodiesel Toronto (not verified) on April 14, 2008 - 8:56am.

Although I am a biofuels guy living in Toronto. I think that Ian is on to something. While I don't profess to be an expert this technology is coming along.

In 2003 Students used this technology in drag racing:
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/display.asp?dismode=article&artid=250

Last year Toyota used it also.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-dark-horse-in-race-to&catID=1&pageNumber=1

The interesting thing here is that this technology is lighter and potentially safer because the capacitors are made of carbon not dangerous chemicals or heavy metals.

Submitted by James Anderson Merritt (not verified) on April 19, 2008 - 9:55am.

Quick recharge of an entire pack would require some beefy couplings between the recharger and the car, carefully designed to mate smoothly and safely even in less-than-optimal ambient conditions; we're talking about a LOT of energy flowing in a very short time, and the voltages and currents will be high. It will be interesting to see how ZENN works that out.

As long as the EESTOR pack is as small, light, and cheap as is being claimed, it is reasonable to assume that you might keep one at home to be trickle-charged at leisure, and then either swap it for the depleted one in your car, or couple them together for a quick exchange of energy.

Quick-charge for more conventional batteries would be trickier, because the strategy of having a duplicate and trickle-charging it at home wouldn't be as practical: the redundant pack would cost a LOT more and eventually need to be replaced. It would probably be a better approach to simply tap the mains for a high-voltage, high-current charge circuit. That would certainly be a possible option for commercial charging stations along the interstate freeways (serving long-haul travelers), for example. But going that route means you have to solve the problem of safe "plug-in" to a high-voltage, hi-current source in damp, wet, or dusty conditions: that doesn't sound like a scenario that would allow the motorist to "self-serve."

Just having a storage unit like this does indeed change the game, and make a lot of options practical that couldn't even be considered before. I like the list of implications that one poster gave us above. Let's think of other changes in the world that the eestor unit, if real, might cause (or enable).

Submitted by JonK (not verified) on June 11, 2008 - 6:14am.

I was thinking the same thing. Keep one at home and just swap. But then I saw that a 52 kWh unit would weight about 336 lbs. Perhaps a swap could be accomplished with an engine hoist. :)

More feasible would just be a Eestor UC that stays at home and trickles charges during off peak hours and can transfer energy quickly with high current to your car. Could also be used for power outtage backup power. Or even charge during off peak then power your home with it during the day. Widespread adoption would lead to there being no "off peak" hours anymore.

If the tech is true and feasible true. I hope it is. And if Lockheed Martin has put their faith in it, I am inclined to believe it is. But doesnt LM have exclusive rights? How could this tech make its way into cars?

Submitted by Pete J (not verified) on April 23, 2008 - 11:59am.

This stock is all about the news. Look at tesla and what it takes to get a car into production and on the road. They still only have 1 unit done and have been in "regular production" since March 17th. To think any company _ANY COMPANY_ could get a car to market in that short of time is complete nonsense. Even GM proportedly pushing 1 billion dollars into Volt to hit 2010 may not do it. I own zenn on the off chance Eestor is real but zenn the company just pisses me off. They release nonsense PR constantly. They are as bad a ZAP. If I could buy Eestor directly I would but for now, Zenn is the only way in. If Eestor is not real, this stock is going to tank badly but it is a risk I am willing to take. If Eestor is real, this is a world changer! The applications are endless. Even if they don't hit the densisty it would be very useful just for regen braking and peak storage (li can only take charges so quickly so often you would have to burn off generated power). Also for bursty storage you are better off not cycling the main cells because of their fixed number of cycles. Interesting times...

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